Game News

The Hard-To-Please Old Fans According To Iizuka

It’s been slow, so why not.

Takashi Iizuka, the long time target for everything older fans perceive wrong with the series, sat down for an interview with Official Nintendo Magazine to talk up the 3DS version of Sonic Generations. He dropped that the fans of the old Mega Drive games are very much hard to please. He hopes that Sonic Generations will fix that.

“Our team are always trying to present new gameplay innovations so it’s hard to please fans who like the gameplay from the older games,” said Iizuka.

“However, we have included the older gameplay as part of Sonic’s 20th Anniversary, so we think the fans of the older games will enjoy it [Generations] as well. We are also looking into continuing the Sonic 4 series which was released on WiiWare, and we’ll keep developing titles so more fans will enjoy the games.”

Easy on the Sonic 4: Episode 2 comments. Lord knows the fire wave it will bring with it will be enough further down the road.

It may not be necessary to keep trying to please the older fan base by trying to recreate a 1:1 variant of the Mega Drive games in a 2.5D environment, as some of the demands (and believe us when we say we are certainly no strangers to seeing some of these on this very site) border the point of just rom-hacking Sonic 1 or 2 and releasing games in that manner.

At the same time, trying to shoe horn in mechanics such as the Werehog, swords, angsty characters with guns, or even shoddily implemented team-based game play isn’t necessarily the way to go. When thinking of “gameplay innovations”, as they call it, the best strategy is to see what can work with the base gameplay instead of throwing darts at post-it notes on the wall and going with it. Knuckles taking the Werehog’s place while keeping similar play style and calling it Sonic and Knuckles 2? Bank.

If Sonic Colors was anything to go by, just release a game that’s charming and genuinely fun to play and everyone will be happy. You could even argue that the formula was within reach as early as 2002.

[Image Credit: Cyrus Parker]

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75 Comments

  • Reply

    To be fair I kinda agree with Iizuka in which Retro fans are hard to please, sometimes even I question of the fans know what they want, and Aaron Webber himself told me once that at SEGA they know there are some fans who just complain for the sake of complaining as much as there are ones who actually know what they’re talking about, I’m not saying it’s impossible to please the classic fans but it’s quite tricky at this point!

    That said, I’m gladly looking for Sonic 4 Episode 2, and if I understood correctly that means the classic gameplay in Generations might appear in later games? if so that’s really awesome!

  • Reply

    Even the devs know the fanbase is hard to please. Though it’s nice to know they’re trying. Can’t wait for Generations (& Sonic 4: Episode 2, but Generations is the big thing for Sonic at the moment).

  • Reply

    Older fans seem to be hard to please because the newer fans will like anything that doesn’t require work and SEGA eats that up. That and the older fans are used to Sonic being fun and exploritive over aggrovating (save for some stages *eyes that bumper*)
    This of course comming from someone who grew up with Sonic Adventure 2, but I can relate after playing 1-3 and loving them all I can :V

    • Reply

      yeah because Sonic Spinball and Knuckles Chaotix are really awesome and required a lot of work -_-‘ c’mon man Retro fans were like that when they were kids, all kids would like any game if their hero was on the cover 🙁

      • Reply

        Spinball and Chaotix are awesome.

        • Reply

          While I really respect you JaxTH, I have to disagree with you here, just because you may liked these games doesn’t mean everyone should, I for once hated those just as I hated Heroes and Unleashed in the modern games!

      • Reply

        You realize the older fans were kids then and adults now, yes? Ask around 50 oldschool Sonic fans (if you can FIND them…) and probably 60% of them will tell you straight-up that Knuckles Chaotix wasn’t the best in the series (it wasn’t awful, it was just not the best. Kinda like my perspective on Heroes- it’s not something I love and I barely like it, but it’s fun when it isn’t being godawfully annoying).

        • Reply

          That’s the thing, when I ask oldschool fans most of them would praise games like Chaotix and Spinball, then the same fans complain about the new fans liking a game like Sonic and the Black Knight, it’s alright if you didn’t like a game but don’t force others to like what you like and call them idiots if they liked a game you didn’t!

  • Reply

    Im a fan of all things sonic and I must agree with Takashi Iizuka. Almost all sonic fans are totally pathetic.

    • Reply

      You just proved HSX’s point.

      • Reply

        I made a good point?

        I AM GLEE :3

  • Reply

    we ‘older fans’ aren’t actually that hard to please, all we want is some quality sonic games which feel and handle like sonic games! All the classic 2D mega-drive games had tight controls, a predictable realistic game engine that wasn’t forgiving unlike the poor ‘floaty’ and slow phisics of sonic 4. The good sonic engine of the mega-drive days allowed poor/inexperienced players to quickly learn and be able to easily predict how sonic would move comming off a slope, ramp, platform etc. This allowed new players to be able to play readily, punished mistakes such asif you had your timing wrong you were often meeted with death in later levels etc. However, the engine allowed experienced players to really let rip, and pick up some hard earned, but massivley rewarding speed. When you had sonic travelling so fast that the screen couldn’t keep up and you were still managing to make your jumps and dodge/kill badnicks was one of the most rewarding gaming experiences I ever had. Then amazingly you recreated this experience nearly perfectly in 3D with sonic adventure! where new players could learn rapidly, but the real pro could still tear it apart. you then lost this in sonic adventure 2 with the looser controls and inocculous moves that would kill all momentum oftern quite randomnly. Still a fun game but not up to what I was after after SA1. and sadly it was downhill from there. Having not played it yet I can’t make a sound judgement, but Generations seems like it might be the first time since then that you are actually getting the game mechanics engine right (at least for half of it), but when I saw the 3DS footage I new we were in trouble again. I’m sorry SonicTeam, but I think I’ll be quite content to continue playing the classics, as I still have more fun and get more entertainment out of them than I do anything else you’ve released in the lst decade…

    • Reply

      What about Sonic Advance?

      • Reply

        Not owning them, I can’t form a solid opinion of them as a whole, but played through advance 3 (I think from memory?), and while I enjoyed it and found large parts quite enjoyable, they never quite had the same pull as the genesis era games did. Weather that was the level design, or some other feature I can’t say seeing as it was a long time ago and I haven’t analysed those games as much. Maybe I should go back and give them a re-look.

        • Reply

          At least play Sonic Advance 1.

        • Reply

          Thanks for sharing.

  • Reply

    Yep, it has been slow, but that what playing/making hacks are for. :v:

  • Reply

    No true fan is going to like 100% of what their favorite franchise does. Mario is Missing and Zelda: The Wand of Gamelon are “shining” examples of this.

  • Reply

    But at least he knows what exactly they’re doing to alienate the classic fans: “Our team are always trying to present new gameplay innovations” — Then stop!!

    • Reply

      Oh yeah because ONLY catering to the classics fan is better right? Sorry but the gamers who grew up with the genesis sonic games aren’t immortal and thus won’t be around forever, but you know what will be around longer?
      other generations of gamers who aren’t as picky or hate filled. Sega shouldn’t even bother making anything for people who just aren’t appreciative and should just stick with doing what they want.

      • Reply

        Inovations are fine, but sonic became an iconic gaming brand SOLELY on its gameplay from the mega-drive era (and Sonic adventure 1 and 2 to a lesser extent). A sonic game is not a true sonic game unless it has that gameplay for at least a large portion of it. Innovations such as the E102-Gamma (and even the Big the Cat) gameplay are fine, but you still need the underlying sonic gameplay to be there. That is what made the franchise. Other succesful franchises (mario, zelda, Command & Conquer etc. etc.) have allways added inovative gameplay elements, some have been succesful, others haven’t, but the games have always been good because the underling core gameplay mechanic that made the series what it is were there. Whenever the younger generation of sonic fans have been shown the classic sonic games, In my experience they have always enjoyed them and proceeded to play them in preference to the newer games. So I don’t really agree that the new gameplay styles need to be there for the younger fans, it’s just that more often than not, that is all they know.

  • Reply

    You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can’t please Sonic fans at all, that’s how it goes with us, lol. There’s the kid who insists every game should be like Unleashed’s day stages, and then the man who bitches about anything that isn’t Sonic 1 with 2.5 D graphics, then the people somewhere in between. I’m sure to some Generations will suck because it’s glitchy and “the physics aren’t true pinball physics like Sonic 2”, with this conclusion only being reached because said people looked for what was wrong with the game instead of being thankful that our favorite Hedgey is around. Some, maybe even most will love Generations, though, and I hope that Iizuka and everyone else knows that those of us that will love it no matter what cannot fucking wait for this game 😀

  • Reply

    Honestly Sega is really making something simple harder than it should be. Which is why I’ve given up hope. If you are a Classic Sonic fan and have high hopes for this game you might get hurt. I came to the conclusion the only way to bring Sonic back is to hit Sega where it hurts the most which is their pockets. I bet Izuka would understand what the classic Sonic fans want then. I fail to understand why is it so “hard-to-please” the largest portion of your fanbase. No offense to modern Sonic fans but it’s the truth. Capcom seems to be doing a pretty good job of keeping the classic Mega Man fans happy with MM9 and MM10 which are only 8 bit games btw. Oh but something like that would be way too hard to accomplish for Sega.

    • Reply

      You say that just as Mega man is starting to die, considering they have Cancelled two Megaman games within 4 months, and lacked including him in UMvC3. It’s strange to think that Megaman might be dead before Sonic.
      Anyways, good luck with your one-man boycott, because no matter how many times people say they’ll do it, they don’t. Plus, Generations is snapping up to be good at this point.

      • Reply

        Thanks for the advice but I’ve been avoiding Sonic games for quite some time now. Sonic Rush is the last Sonic game I bought and the last one I bought on console was Sonic Heroes. Think I’m doing a pretty good at avoiding them. I would change my mind about Generations but I rather be safe than sorry.

      • Reply

        Capcom pulled the nintendo 3DS game due to poor 3DS sales, they were worried about the installer base, not the product of the game. I believe they stated that the game will go ahead if the 3DS sales improove over the coming year or something to that effect.

    • Reply

      While I agree with a lot of that, Capcom at the moment are worse than sega. Megaman’s prettymuch dead.

      • Reply

        Unfortunately that is the case. Atleast Capcom understood what the Mega Man fans wanted out of the series and that was my point. They still do. They’re just not doing it or unable to. Whatever the case is. Mega Man may not be in UMvC3 but Zero is still in there which I can live with. I believe the series would still be stable if Zero became the main focus of the series. But that’s just me I guess. I still hope they fix whatevers going on with Mega Man. I don’t want to see him die away.

        • Reply

          Capcom: know exactly how to please the fanbase but they won’t do it because they suck

          Sega: dumb but willing to try and please the fanbase

        • Reply

          Capcom even without Mega Man is still better than Sega. They still have a series called Street Fighter. Capcom doesn’t suck. Sega sucks and yes they are willing to try now for your money. They cant even dream to be on Capcom’s level. Capcom make games like UMvC3 while Sega make games like Mario and Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic games. The only people that buy Sega games are people that think Sonic will be back to his classic style of gameplay which he never is btw or people that that think Werehogs, swearing and guns, people who have furry fetishes,and bad level design that you just run through with mindless speed in Sonic games is cool.

  • Reply

    This notion is idiotic. It isn’t “classic” or “modern” people who are hard to please–unreasonable people are hard to please. Fans of both eras of gameplay are actually rather simple to find a solid middle-ground for, especially if games like Unleashed and Colors say anything about the state of the franchise. Generations is even closer to fulfilling both motifs, though that’s likely to only be a one-time deal.

    I just don’t understand why people keep feeding these idiotic stereotypes and blanket statements. Even the smallest bit of objective critical analysis shows that singling out these kinds of irrelevant factors does nothing but give off the wrong impression and needlessly put labels on people. It’s a fucking video game, people. Design it well and people will enjoy it.

    As for Iizuka, I can’t even begin to break down why he’s everything that’s gone wrong with the Sonic series in recent memory. If the public examples of his ridiculous, ignorant blunders and fuck-ups weren’t enough, you’d goddamn cringe if you heard about the pretentious horseshit he pulls behind the scenes. He deserves none of our respect and certainly not the high-standing position he holds in a once-prestigious and wonderful team of developers.

    “Classic” and “Modern” fans are easy to please if you just do one thing–make a legitimately well designed, well thought-out product that plays on the gameplay’s strengths and doesn’t aim to change it in ways that takes away from the elements of the originals that made them so appealing in the first place. You know there’s a problem when mediocre fan creations are being considered better than a game claimed to be the sequel to three of the greatest Mega Drive games ever created.

    • Reply

      Damn, Tweaker, way to hit the nail on the head. Thanks. I’d love to know what you know of Iizuka’s business inside of the company itself. It sounds like the bane of what I unfortunately think must be the current situation at Sega’s Sonic Divisions. 

      By the way, here’s another thing that bothers me. All it takes for them to keep your rolling momentum is to change one variable as Polygon Jim did. Now let’s think of what they have sitting around on an emulator at Sega waiting to be re-re-re-re-released in another Mega Collection. Mad? I don’t know, but I’m not too cool with knowing that very scenario as it is when they could have been analyzing and implementing proper Sonic staples of the Genesis games instead of having to script their ramps and (for no logical reason) springs. If they truly cared that is. But what am I saying? Iizuka knows we love Green Hills and Cities so much instead of replacing levels and putting Pyramid Cave, Bingo Highway, Flame Core (if they REALLY needed to acknowledge the very game they were trying to avoid acknowledging), Holoska, and Aquarium Park (though, I guess I would be fine with Planet Wisp) and having… Variety. But no, we want a clone of the Genesis games block by block, ring for ring. It’s not like we want a unique, working experience that you can really get into and have warm fuzzy feelings inside. 

      Iizuka makes things way too hard. And Webber? I kind of want him to quit his job. I don’t like it whenever I have to see him come in and cover the company’s ass for the problems that Iizuka’s direction has caused. I truly feel that he CAN’T really be enjoying this. There’s no way he could find enjoyment out of that. I feel that he wants more influence in the franchise that just like us, he’s a fan of, but all he gets to do is be… Brand Manager (that was his promotion, right?). 

      • Reply

        I can’t speak for Aaron, and I certainly imagine he won’t comment publicly on it without clearance, but there have to be nights in the SoA PR offices where it’s stunned silenece, mocking disbelief, or certain staffers just need a few cold ones when a new major Sonic announcement hits.
        Honestly? I would not blame them at all in the least. I know one of you in there is reading this.

    • Reply

      ….
      *slow clap*

    • Reply

      Well said!

    • Reply

      Sad but true.

    • Reply

      Couldn’t agree more!

  • Reply

    I think they need to realist that changing the skills of the main character, the core gameplay, and adding new characters(though this can work if used right) isn’t the way to go. Mario has survived all this time by keeping the core gameplay the same, and adding changes to other things like powerups and the stages. Mario sunshine for example kept the core mario gameplay mostly the same,but adding fludd was a controversial addition and even though it worked rather well, sunshine is generally considered the worst 3d mario game(maybe because they fell into the same trap as sega?). Mario galaxy however, took the core mario gameplay, and changed the environment it was played in, and added some new powerups. Nintendo took what made mario great and added somthing new and original, but not entirely intrusive, the gravity mechanic. If instead of giving sonic a sword or 2 other people to control, they just gave him a diferent environment or series of powerups or so forth. Thats why generations is shaping up so well, theres nothing changing the core gameplay and it has somthing different in the form of being able to play a level as both classic and modern sonic.

    There is 1 problem with generations so far. From what ive seen classic sonic levels could end up feeling like modern sonics 2d side scrolling sections with less abilities, there just too fast. If they can change the level design in these then this game should be great.

  • Reply

    Wait…”looking into it”? You mean they haven’t started working on it and whatshisname on that forum thingy was bullshitting?

    Having said that, it’s not that retro fans are hard to please it’s that modern fans are easy to please. they’re happy with their werehogs and their swords. If sega just used common sense like they did with colours they could please everyone without going back to the basics every year.

    • Reply

      I want to know why everybody singles the modern Sonic fans out as “too easy to please”. This reeks of racism, you guys.

      • Reply

        I lol’d at racism.

        And hey, if someone can tell me with a straight face that they enjoyed Sonic 06, didn’t mind the werehog and thought Sonic 4’s physics were fine, then they must be easy to please. Just my view on stuff

  • Reply

    It’s the physics. All that needs to be fixed are the physics. Keep the physics exactly the same as Sonic 2 or 3 and everything will be hunky-dory.

  • Reply

    Well, no… they are not. They just want to live their childhood memories and are a bunch of manbabies that will keep complaining about everything until you do something like… well… like half of Sonic Generations. 

    You know what’s great about the Mario franchise? They don’t take themselves that seriously. So Mario can be paper. And side scrolling. And with Luigi in a cartoonish RPG! And everybody is enjoying the ride. Sonic fans are not. They are bitching. 

    And… OF COURSE, there were some things that haven’t exactly hit the spot, but every long time franchise does that. I personally think that 4 isn’t really worthy of its title, because it isn’t a true sequel. It’s more like Sonic Rush HD with old bosses. And we had that 2006 zoophilic thing that we might just pretend its a Square Enix mistake. But! We have colors! And heroes – beside the crappy storyline – was very fun to play. And the whole wherehog thing was weird, I agree that placing knuckles there and maybe tails (as the grand reason the werehog existed was because making a whole modern Sonic game with the hedgehog engine is way too expensive – as Sonic goes too fast and the stages are actually HUGE)… but day levels of Unleashed are SOOO GORGEOUS. 

    Uhm… now that i come to think…

    Hey, Sega Guys! Maybe the solution to your engine problem lies a little bit in the past. You could make a great sonic “Solo” game in sidescrolling and put sonic friends back in there for the 3D titles – but not all 86 of them, please. And also please, no Amy. Sonic deserver better than a Mickey Mouse mutation. 

    Ok, ok… done rambling. 

    • Reply

      Can’t they just please retro and modern fans by making legitemately good games like colours? And Mario’s not all that perfect, older fans hated super paper mario, but I never hear people calling them out for being manbabies.

    • Reply

      One problem with your comparison to Mario: those spinoffs are fun. Sonic’s spinoffs are not. Tell me with a straight face that you enjoyed how Secret Rings controlled or any of the Riders games. It’s [i]so[/i] easy to forget why some Sonic fans bitch all the time, whether they’re entitled to it or not: they have a lot to work with.

  • Reply

    im just a die hard sonic fan who will be there through thick or thin

  • Reply

    This reminds me of the battle between old school WWE fans and current WWE fans. The Attitude Era VS the PG Era. In my opinion, Sonic has gone through something that Mario didn’t (again, it’s my opinion. I respect who feels otherwise): evolution. Sonic tried to keep up with the times, with different plots, different gameplay styles and different characters. And that’s why I love Sonic games. There’s variety. Let’s clarify something: my favorite Sonic game of all time is Sonic 3 & Knuckles. A game from the Genesis/Mega Drive era. But that doesn’t mean that I have to bash the modern games because Sonic doesn’t sidescroll anymore. So what if Sonic has to battle a water-like monster, stopping a forgotten space station from crashing on Earth, work with two more characters to advance in a stage, have his rival carry guns, save a human princess, turning to a werehog at night, carry a sword or harness alien powers, people need to stop being old school SONIC fans and be what I think I am: a SONIC fan. Everytime I see on youtube so called “old school” Sonic fans “reviewing” modern games I always wonder: “If they say this game is crap and bash them all the time, why do they own it? Why do they play it? Better yet, why do they go to the trouble of beating it, if it takes some days to do it?” Seriously, if I don’t like a game, I don’t own it. By the way, the “older” fans shoudn’t complain about Sega not hearing them: remember the Advance series? Remember the Rush series? Sega always thought about older and modern fans, and Sonic Generations is another proof.

    • Reply

      I’m with you on that one. S3&K stands as the greatest Sonic title I’ve played. And people don’t see me bash the modern style gameplay because of it.

      Just reading through most of the comments here, everyone just keeps belittling those who don’t agree with them! What the hell! Even though the Sonic franchise stands as one of the greats, I honestly have to say we have the most pathetic fanbase.

    • Reply

      My thoughts exactly. But my fave title is Sonic CD. 

      • Reply

        My favorite title is Sonic Adventure 2, but I still enjoy the classic games. I also loved the Advance games, the Rush games, and Colors DS. My question is: why doesnt anyone mention the Rivals games, because I enjoyed them as well.

    • Reply

      Thing about Sonic is that he went through evolution mainly because he had a distinctive personality – which has changed to fit the modern times, of course.
      On the other hand, Mario, having rarely spoken, is of no distinct personality (Word of God says that he was made this way so they could put him in almost any situation. Proof is in the various genres he’s been in (as well as Super Princess Peach, where HE has to be rescued)) and, aside from his appearance, rarely has evolved – he’s simply gained roles which make the story for Mario. (His brother, though, by the time of the GameCube , DID get character development!)
      At the very least there’s one thing about Sonic’s evolution over the years which is good to know that he can relate to us (or a certain Dante) – in Sonic Colours, you can sum up his destruction of the park in four words: “Same crap, different day.”

  • Reply

    Of course he would say that, they are hard to please because classic,good high-quality games require him to REALLY WORK,to do his job.His team would have to replay the games constantly,bug-test,check if things like the shields are not broken,test the levels again,check the levels,balance it,etc.

    Not to mention they would have to come up with surprising themes for the levels,instead of just recycling “casino level”,”ice level” and so on.

    So of course, is easier for them to just make a pixar knock-off game.Improving the mechanics and balance of the game is hard, ramming a cliched “story” and improving the visuals is not hard.So they take the easy way out.

    Anyway, these “older fans” aren’t even that,it isn’t even the case,because as proven by games like NSMBWii, if you make a game that targets the direction classic games used to target(which was a tight,replayeable, and challenging gameplay combined with memorable music and fantastic visuals) not only will you make the older crew want to play again, but all the new fans join as well,because they can enjoy a good game.Whilst the opposite doesn’t happen with the so called “new generation of games”.

    The level of people that are attracted to the “modern” games isn’t comparable with the vast lot of people that are attracted to the classic games.That is why they are called classics,they stand the test of time and can be enjoyed by countless generations to come.

  • Reply

    Sonic and Knuckles 2, huh?
    I wouldn’t be surprised if Sonic Generations turns out to be good if retro became half as popular because they wouldn’t have anything to complain about.

    • Reply

      EPIC!

  • Reply

    Of course they’re hard to please. They think their vision of a Sonic game has to be the be-all and end-all of how a Sonic game should be. Then you introduce the factors that don’t come into their vision and they get more butthurt than cactus convention.

    It’s sad really.

    • Reply

      Sonic colours wasn’t exactly like the genesis games, retro fans liked it. they don’t want carbon copies of sonic 1, they want good games.

  • Reply

    “Knuckles taking the Werehog’s place while keeping similar play style and calling it Sonic and Knuckles 2? Bank.”

    ^I completely disagree. The Werehog was an embarrassingly bad concept, sure, but this wouldn’t have been any better because of the god awful level design, glitches, music, shitty combat, and contrast to the original S&K.

    • Reply

      Lol We shouldn’t really complain about what happened with Sonic Unleashed. It is kind of what the Sonic fans asked for. A Sonic game that only involves Sonic gameplay which it did. Sega just took it literally and didn’t really understand what the fans were asking for. They wanted to add other characters to Unleashed but since the fans wanted a game with Sonic only the Werehog was the only way Sega could get around that. I think its unfair to blame Sonics friends as a part of his downfall and a little selfish if you ask me. As a result the Tails, Knuckles and Shadow fans have to suffer because Sonic fans only want Sonic. Sega doesn’t have to leave Sonic friends out to focus on core gameplay. Some of the best Sonic games have had Sonics friends. Sonic 2, Sonic 3&K, Sonic Adventure, SA2, Sonic Advance and Sonic Rush. I do agree adding more would characters would be ridiculous at this point but there are many of us that miss going different paths with Knuckles and reaching areas Sonic was unable to reach. Same goes for Tails. Shadow’s gameplay was similar to Sonic’s but it was fun too when he didn’t have guns in his hand. I even liked Blaze the Cat and would like to see her appear in fire Sonic games as a playable character.

      • Reply

        Uh, I didn’t even say anything about friends.

        • Reply

          I know thats not directed towards you. I just felt the need to add that in.

      • Reply

        I think you’ve missed a point in your conversation with the other characters here; the level design allowed for the characters to take different paths through the levels. The characters themselves, as you stated, were fun and often a good change/variation on gameplay, but the experience was only worthwhile in the games where the level design was fine-tuned enough that the characters skills could truely be taken advantage of. It was a testament to Sonic 3’s game design that you could play through a level as sonic or tales, have a fun and different game experience with characters that varied very little, then you add on that knuckles could also add to this again when sonic and knuckles came out and you have what is some of the best balanced level and character design ever in a platforming game. I’m still amazed at how a simple change between, insta-shield and element sheild powers, flying and swiming, and a lower jump height with gliding, climbing and punching abilities allowed for such fun and different game play styles on the same engine within the same level. I think that is what people missed from the older games, It’s not necessarily the extra characters, but how they’re implemented and the design and balancing of them around sonic that counts.

      • Reply

        Twisting what the fans say they want into something that doesn’t work isn’t really the fans’ fault.

  • Reply

    The biggest problem with “Classic” fans is that they have NO idea of how it is 2 work 4 a video game company plain and simple. They think that just because they spend 150 dollars on a Hex Editor n hack a Sonic game they believe themselves 2 be the “big cheese.” That’s not how the real world works. Creating videos games costs money, plus you work under a certain time limit, so in a age whereour kids play games they have to keep up with the times. Sega did that and that’s why we still give a damn about a fictional blue talking Hedgehog. My very first video game was Sonic 2 n I’ve played every main Sonic game since and their all great, prefect games. Yeah I wish Super Sonic was playable in SA1 and SONIC 06 but it is what it is. ALL the main Sonic games where perfect even SONIC 06, so sit down wait for Generations; buy it and love it. S-O-N-I-C GO!!!!

    • Reply

      I agree. they should all make there own little games.

      • Reply

        Thank you for agreeing with me. Now I’m not hating on the Sonic Hackers (because hacking Sonic games is fun) but hacking a Sonic game and making a Sonic game from the ground up is TWO VERY DIFFERENT THINGS. I’m a “Classic” and Modern Sonic fan, I’ve played Sonic 1,CD,2, 3&K and beat them so many times, I can play these games with my eyes closed. I’ve played SA1 through Sonic Colors and to be honest I’ve never been disappointed. Sonic Generations is going to be EPIC plain and simple. Be thankful, because we haven’t seen Sonic rebooted like Devil May Cry was. The day you see Sonic in a black trench coat with two hand guns killing mutant turtles, (no pun made) THAT’S the day you [email protected] and complain. Until than you sit back Boost your way through a huge level because that my friends is fun. *Pats self on back* “Chip where is my Ice cream? I need a victory lick.” 

    • Reply

      I’m honestly glad that you have licked all the sonic games to date, I however simply haven’t. But I do find your argument about cost being an issue a problem. Budgets and release-timeframes were much tighter back in the ‘golden-years’ of sonic than they are now (less than a year to be precise), yet somehow they managed to make polished, fun games back then that stand up to the test of time and are still some of the best platforming games ever released. That can’t be said of most of the recent Sonic games, even with larger budgets and longer timeframes, and while the cost to produce games has increased, other franchises seem to be able to continue to produce quality games, mario and zelda being two shining examples. I would personally be happy with a sonic game every 2-3 years if it was a quality game than what’s been served up every year recently if the release timeframe was a genuine concern.

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    Most of you are missing the point. Iizuka changed a francise that didn’t need to be changed. Sonic already had plenty of fans willing to buy his next game. Why continually change the playstyle and alienate fans of the previous games? Mario has evolved not changed, keeping old fans and attracting new ones. Not only that he has directed the worst games in the history of the francise he is also a PR nightmare. And sonictopfan, screw you, Chaotix clearly had effort put into it, it contains awesome music, incredible sprite art and enjoyable, unique special stages, the gameplay mechanic was prehaps bad but it serves as an example of why change something that isn’t broken.

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    *Laughs* Yes I’ve “licked” all the Sonic games. (Their is a sickly truth to that statement) *Laughs* I jest but than again you have to thing about it like this: Sega is NOT making a Sonic 1, CD, 2, 3&K type game, their making Sonic Unleashed type games now. Their two very different Sonic games. As a company Sega is keeping up with the times which EVERY video game company is doing and which is SUPPOSE to happen. I can’t speak for the Mario games because I was never a big Mario fan, but even the Great Zelda series is changing their game play. Their adding Wii motion to it. I honestly prefer the old control system like that found in OoT and MM but their changing it up. Sega has done that with Sonic. Keep that in mind people Sega is NOT creating a Sonic Mega Drive game their making a Sonic game for the new systems. I LOVE the classic games but I’ve ran through Angel Island Zone so many times I’m sick of it. Sega didn’t change anything because the old style games are exactly the same right? If Sega made a game that was suppose to be just like the old school games but they messed up THAN complain. Sonic 4 I loved but we can all agree it did not play as the old games did, so that we can complain about. But Generations is a WHOLE different game entirely. It just happens to star Sonic, but it’s a new style of video game, that’s all,

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      Here’s the thing about “changing with the times”: you’re either a trend setter or a trend follower, neither or which necessarily dictate whether an end product will be good. When SEGA tries to play catch-up with the rest of the industry, they can either make it work or flub it. But they don’t always have to play catch-up. They can try to be ahead of the game and keep up that pace.

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      I think your missing one key point however. Change for the sake of changing (to keep with the times) is rather pointless, if the ideas themselves aren’t really well thought out to begin with. It also doesn’t help if certain ideas don’t really wind up being implemented correctly or even complimenting the series in the long run. That itself has been the major issue for the past handful of years for this series (though 2006 maybe noted as the year without a quality control team…).

      Let’s look at Sonic Adventure for a minute. That right there is a complete overhaul from the 2D games, yet it felt like a natural evolution to the series. It was something completely new at the time, yet it retain the very same essence that people knew and loved with the series. A few years later that ideology faded away with each new title released…things sort of slid down hill didn’t they?

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    I find it amarming that no one brings up the fact tthat SEGA hasnt locked in 60fps since SA2. Give me that, tighter controls, and better jumping, and I’d be saying Sonic is the greatest.

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    Scribble007 Your right SA1 was perfect, it took Sonic and brought him up with the times in a new way that worked. I agree with you. After Shadow the Hedgehog (video game) that’s when Sonic took a bit of a nose dive I agree. But I still enjoyed SONIC 06 through Sonic Colors. In truth if Sega had held back SONIC 06’s release date and fixed the bugs and added the Rainbow Gem we would most likely have praised SONIC 06 as one of the best games, with a confusing story. Whatever Sega is doing IS working why? Because 1. their gaining new fans and 2. we the old fans are still interested in Sonic games, so as badly as Sega is messing up, they’ve still got our attention and money. MegaDash I wouldn’t say I’m a follower because I’m not actually but again your not seeing this from a BUSINESS point of view your looking at this from a FAN”S point of view, so of course your thinking “I want Sonic old school play style.” While Sega is saying “We have to come up with new ideas to catch peoples attention.” In truth were dying for old school style Sonic games because we haven’t seen them in a long time, but I bet you any money if Sega gave us our wish we would be saying, “I want something different.” Honestly how many times can we pop Motorbug over the head? It gets boring, so now we got Modern Sonic boosting so fast I don’t know why Sega bothers in making nice stages because you can’t seem them anyway. *Laughs* I UNDERSTAND your points and I get where your coming from I do. What I’m saying is think about it from the BUSINESS point of view, be more open minded. Ok fine they didn’t have to change Sonic’s playing style but they did so why complain? Thank God Sonic is still around to entertain us and didn’t die off like poor Mega Man did. 

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    Top three problem hindering Sonic from perfection are of the following: a lack of 60fps, jerky lack of animations, terrible jumping.

    Fix those, and he’ll be Game of the Year capable. 

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    Fucking FINALLY. Some credit to Sonic Advance 1. It beats the living piss out of Episode 4 in gameplay, music, replayability and overall fun in EVERY CONCEIVABLE WAY.

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    I like any sonic game (i’m old sonic fan) and only thing i dont like in new sonic games are controls, they are not free like in SA or any other game, and the fact that sonic 3ds is different than sonic 3ds on ps3 

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